Douglas Sturrock on Fort Langley and Rugby in Canada

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Okay, book on Fort Langley [Ed. Oh, please.], October 13th, fifth interview with Doug Sturrock. So, Doug, tell us a little bit of the background to get into Fort Langley.

Douglas Sturrock: I grew up in Kitsilano. As I kid, I went to school in Kistilano Secondary School. I lived in Kistilano until 1990, married twice. First marriage was 1962. Second marriage was in 1983. My second wife and I lived in Kitsilano until 1990. Then we moved to West Vancouver. We lived there for 14 years. Then we came to Fort Langley in June of 2004. So, we’ve been here 12 years. It’s quite a change from living in Kistiliano and West Vancouver. Kistilano has changed, of course. Where I lived, it was a community. A lot of my neighbours knew each other. In fact, on the block that we lived in, the neighbours knew everybody. Some of them across the street. Some on the next block. We lived in West Vancouver. We lived in a really nice area near the water and Eagle Harbour, just a wonderful, wonderful area. It took us a while to get to know the neighbours there. Mind you, I was still teaching then. I was a teacher for 33 years. We used to get up early in the morning to go earlier to Kistilano. I was gone all day. I was gone a lot. Not a chance to meet your neighbours. The ones we had were really great. Then we moved here. We moved here 2004, as I said. I retired from teaching in 1998. Then we moved here and had the chance to see and talk to and get to know more people. Two of the neighbours, I got to know them quite well. But mostly, we met in Fort Langley at Bob Roger’s place, which is now Veggie Bob’s. Myrna, my wife and I used to come down here. Used to… we still do. Thi sis kind of the first place that we would have something to eat or a cup of coffee. We have been coming here ever since. I really don’t know Fort Langley very much [Laughing], except from my place to Bob’s. And that’s it.

Jacobsen: [Laughing].

Sturrock: We met on the way because your path runs right by my place. I do know Fort Langley a bit. People are here most welcoming, which is really great. That’s what a community should be. We get our cars repaired next door. The Fortless [sic] Carriage, he’s a really neighbourly guy. He’s the old school mechanic. He’s hired a couple of other guys, young men, probably not long out of high school who asre also wanting to be mechanics and are really great when you talk to them. I really don’t know the Fort very well. I have been across to the cemetery a few times with familiar people or names I know, or even don’t know. There’s a great bit of history there. I notice the changes in the last couple of years with the development, down by the river. The Coulter Berry building, it was a big hassle over getting that built. It is another part of this changing Fort Langley. It has an old newness or a new oldness to it. The man with all the money who has bought up all the property has gone on a building spree to change Glover. Unfortunately, to me, it looks like Downtown Vancouver, very highend clothing place. It is not like theold Fort Langley was. A couple of buildings are gone and people who had businesses there are gone. I don’t know if they retired or were forced out. Bob is still here, thankfully. He’s kind of an old school kind of guy. He’s changed his business. He used to sell a lot of vegetables, lots of fruit and vegetables. Kind of the business dropped off, so he developed a business… it’s called Veggie Bob’s, but he doesn’t sell any veggies anymore. It’s got a really classy menu, non-dairy. Some wonderful sandwiches and soups, he still makes the soups. He’s, probably, been making the soups forever and sandwiches to die for. He has enlarged his menu. I spend a lot of time here a couple of times a week, sometimes something to eat like a cup of soup. What else, at the moment?

Jacobsen: You described how you go to Fort Langley. You described two marriages. Some things you didn’t give, I believe, but I do know. You have a child.

Sturrock: Yes, a son, he is an artist.

Jacobsen: What is his relationship with Fort Langley?

Sturrock: Our son is Logan. My son from the first marriage. I had two kids from the first marriage. Logan is from the second marriage. The three of us, wife, Logan, and I, lived in West Vancouver and sold in 2004. Logan graduated from West Vancouver Secondary School. He didn’t know what we wanted to do for the rest of his life, so he took some part-time jobs for the next couple of years. When we were in West Vancouver, he was planning on moving out from home, away from home then, to Vancouver to live with a buddy of his, school buddy. They found a place to rent, finally. At that time, Myrna and I decided to come to Fort Langley. It was primarily her idea because she is an artist. She had a very good artist who lived in West Vancouver; she met her there and found out that she grew up in Langley. She said this could be a good place to move to: Fort Langley. We talked it over and ended up moving here. As she got involved in the artist community right away, she got involved for about six months next door at the Fort Gallery and helped it grow. Then she got it as a part-time job, but it became a full-time job. She didn’t want that, so she quit. She is still an artist. Logan, in the meantime, after spending time in Vancouver and some other areas of Vancouver, he decided to go back to school. So, first of all, he and his buddy went on a holiday to Europe. They were there for four months He came back and said, “I want to be an artist.” Although, he was always an artist since 2-years-old with crayon. He’s been, basically, drawing and painting all of his life. He ended up going to Capilano University and transferred to Emily Carr and graduated with a bachelor of fine arts 2 years ago. Now, he is living in Vancouver, still; he’s an artist and a DJ. While he was working in Downtown Vancouver, he got into being a DJ part-time and he carried on with that. Now, he’s quite an accomplished DJ as well as being an artist. He still works in Downtown Vancouver and Kitsilano. He works at a trophy engraving store. There’s a bit of artistic work being done there, mostly in engraving. But he didn’t move to Fort Langley when we did. He stayed in Vancouver. But I’m still here. Myrna’s still here. I am just finishing off writing a book on the history of rugby in Canada. We’re looking to have it printed in, probably, late January, mid-January. I met with the designer yesterday looking at what still needs to be done. We were hoping to have it out by Christmas, but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. That appears to be more of a realistic time. I spend a lot of time doing that. Lately, it has been a couple of hours every day, getting that submitted, edited, doing some proofreading. We have some other people involved in editing and proofreading as well. That’s my major focus until that is finished. I think that really started seriously in about 2001. Myself and another fellow, a guy by the name Tom Keast. He and I wrote a history of the Meraloma Club, which is a Vancouver sports club out of Kitsilano. When I retired, I spent 2.5 to 3 years doing that. My buddy Tom and I did that. Then I decided to start this book on the history of rugby in Canada. I’d been involved in rugby most of my life. I played in high school. I played at the Meraloma Club. I played at university. I played back to the Meraloma Club. I learned a lot about the club and what I was teaching, and collected information for the sake of keeping it. Eventually, I got my arm twisted to write a history of the club. I never intended to be a writer [Laughing]. I still don’t think I’m a write, but I’m interested. But I wouldn’t say, “I am a good writer.” I am interested in the history of this thing. That’s how I got involved in the history of Canada. I went to the University of Alberta for one year. One of my professors said I should be done, so I wrote a thesis on rugby. I finished that in 1967. But I had a lot of research. Then I started becoming interested in rugby in Canada as well, hence the book. It is the first of its kind in Canada. Nobody has ever written a history on it. It is not a sport anybody writes about, not even the newspapers anymore. Some clubs across Canada have written a bit of history, short histories, of clubs, but not a lot. So, there was a lot of research to be done, when you write across Canada. I made several trips across Canada. The first one, I can probably write a book about that one. I drove from Edmonton to Halifax and back in an Austin-Healy in May of 1968, stopping along the way to meet rugby people, trying to get some information, trying to do research, trying to get them to give me more information about their area or the province. So, I did a lot of research on microfilm, reading microfilm at the University of Alberta. When I came back to Vancouver, I was there 14 months. Off and on, I would go to the Vancouver Public Library. Then I retired. I made a trip to Halifax. There’s a lot of rugby in the Maritime provinces prior to 1989. So, most of the information was in the newspapers there. Then I came back and did a lot of writing. I also interviewed tons of people right across Canada either by telephone, email, or in-person. Eventually, I got to the point where I had enough to expand on my thesis, because I had a basic outline to start with, and information. That information from that first trip I had never used. The book itself is going to be about 1,400 pages. It is going to be about an inch and a quarter thick, in horizontal format, and over 400 images. All with credits to the photographers. It has been a labour of love in a way. Because I have other interests as well. I like to do more reading, but I got a stack of books I haven’t because of other things that I have to do. Of course, the weather in Vancouver is so beautiful. Fort Langley is as well. So, for my two books that I wrote, I only did the research from November to March. Even though, it took a long time. I started the rugby one in 2001. I really didn’t do anything in the Summer time. The travelling I did; I mentioned going to Halifax by car once. I also did another trip to the Atlantic provinces one Summer to visit my sister who was in St. John’s, New Brunswick. I camped all the way, practically all the way there and back in another Austin-Healy. Then in about 2003, I went to the Atlantic provinces again because there was more information that I needed to get in 2010 or ’11. That time, I went to Montreal and Toronto and Winnipeg. I also made other trips to Calgary and Edmonton. I drove there in those times going to libraries and archives. Anybody who is interested in archival work across Canada, if you ever get to Vancouver; the City of Vancouver archives is, probably, one of the best archives across Canada. Some of the archives in the Atlantic provinces aren’t particularly good. I’m not saying it is all their fault. It takes a lot of time, effort, and people to put archives together and find material that is useful. But everybody, no matter where you go is so helpful. Anytime, you are doing work for writing. You need information. Everybody is so helpful.

Jacobsen: Is that a Canadian value?

Sturrock: That’s a good point, Scott. I don’t know. The only other archives I have ever been to. I haven’t been to any archives in California. But I have been to the University of California, Berkeley. I went to the University of Portland library, public library. They also have good stock of microfilm of newspapers, which are really valuable when you are looking to do research because, sometimes, that’s your only research. I know that the archives I have been to Edmonton, Calgary, the provincial archives in Alberta, provincial in Saskatchewan, the RCMP archives outside of Regina, Manitoba archives, Winnipeg archives, Toronto, University of Toronto archives, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia sports all of fame — been to a couple of sports halls of fame. These are kind of all institutions that you have to go to if you are going to be writing about something, where a sport or a topic. Anyways, that’s consumed most of today’s interview [Laughing]: the book and travelling to get there.

Jacobsen: If we can have a denouement, a conclusion, when you are describing your family and your son in Fort Langley and some of the things people can, probably, infer with Canadian values coming out within the interview, do you consider Fort Langley more of a family-friendly place, in other words a place that is good for rasing one’s child or children?

Sturrock: For sure, I see more kids now. I see more families. A lot of them, whether it is a place to raise kids or not. The Langley Fine Arts School produces some very talented people, according to the newspaper. I’ve never met any of them, personally, so I don’t know. I’m assuming it is. When we lived in West Vancouver, there was a woman, our neighbour, who actually sent her daughter here. One of her daughters for a year. Because she took a trip out here and heard about it, and found out the program that they had were outstanding for her daughter. I’d say it was only for 1 year because it was too far to travel. They’d travel from West Vancouver to Fort Langley and back. That’s a lot of driving. It was at a time when the traffic got worse for travelling the freeway, before the bridge. It was just impossible to come out here. It takes over two hours each way, each day.

Jacobsen: The only other case I know — it’s not a direct analogy, but it is an analogy in terms of devotion. There’s a cult in Cloverdale. They’re called “Branhamites.” He was a post-World War II Healing Revival. Bascially, a fraud, a charlatan pretendin to be a healer, as with Benny Hinn and these other frauds and charlatans. It doesn’t happen. When I went with a couple of friends top that church, the services were long and invovled. People would come from Seattle, Washington every Sunday, sometimes twice a week, pretty much to these all-day services. These were giving one if not two whole days including travel, roundtrip, and attendance at the church to attend this stuff. So, Langley Fine Arts School is having not the same degree, but almost a similar pull for people emotionally and in terms of its status as a quality school for dramatic arts, arts, fine arts, and so on.

Sturrock: Yes, there’s a lot of schools like that, not just Fort Langley. The fine arts school, there are a lot of schools that do great work, good teachers, good programs, and attract kids to go. Fort Langley, what I read about the students in the newspaper, in terms of the graduates there, it’s a quality school. It is only one of many. There are several in Vancouver. They tend to specialize. They had a second to none music program. Kids from all over Vancouver came to go to the music program, a great band, a great band teacher, and a choral conductor. They would go into various contests, local contests, provincial contests, even some national ones. That;s just one school. There are several schools across the school that provide musical programs and so the same thing, go to these other events. In a way, it’s kind of a cult thing.

Jacobsen: It’s highly involved, but it’s not ideologically driven.

Sturrock: That’s correct. It is skill-driven. The skill of playing a musical instrument or the skill of acting. The skill of drawing a painting.

Jacobsen: Kids pursuing interests of self-development that the school recognizes and nourishes.

Sturrock: Yes, a lot of them, it is, hopefully, long-term employment to be an actor or a musician or a painter. Initially, they’re attracted for kinds of reasons. Sometimes, they have a talent. Sometimes, it is because their buddy joined. Sometimes, it was the teacher. Something, they heard the bad play and want to play a musical instrument. There are all kinds of reasons for joining. There are always a few who don’t like it and drop out, don’t quit the program necessarily, but say, “No, this isn’t for me.”

Jacobsen: When you think of some of the things we do to bring in tourists like ghosts and the ghost tours, things of that nature. What do you think of the way we use certain mythologies as attractions for tourists as opposed to more benign things like a train station, the old Fort, and walking tours?

Sturrock: I’m not the least bit interested in that stuff. It’s not me. No. Everybody’s different. Everybody has different interests. Some people are attracted to whatever. If it is on the televsion or the newspaper, or you just mentioned ghosts, I ignore it. I am not the least bit interested. My interest in kids would be for young people, say with Halloween. It used to be scary. Now, it’s kind of a neat thing as a tradition to do. But even then, there’s trouble, sometimes. You get young adults. We’ll call them adults, sometimes. They get to be too old and they want to go door to door, and think it’s a big thing. They spoil it for the families. The kids up to a certain age

Jacobsen: If you had to describe Fort Langley in one word, what would it be?

Sturrock: One word. I’d say, one word, “Enjoyable.” I mean, there are words connected to that: friendly, enjoyable, nice place to be, still. I was going to say there’s no fast food, but they just opened one last year. No McDonald’s. No Starbucks. One service station. One cemetery [Laughing]. It’s a quiet place, still; although, it’s become busier. There are more cars now. Once they got the Bedford Landing now, they had more cars, more people. Any development brings more people and more cars. Cars, that’s another topic for the future. There’s good and bad in that. People are spending their money here on the cars. But it’s a lot noisier than it used to be. Although, at night, it’s pretty quiet. Daytime, the traffic is in the daytime. But it’s a really nice place to be. They have some events during the year to try to attract people from outside of Fort Langley, the Cranberry Festival just finished. Unfortunately, it was terrible weather this year. It is a great place to buy crafts and food items as well as connect them with cranberries. You still have May Day here, in May, and parades. Parades always attract a lot of people. People like to look at parades, floats and music, hear the music. Those are community events. Lots of communities have them throughout Canada. Because they were to keep good family events. There aren’t a lot of family events around anymore. You have to go looking for them.

Jacobsen: There are fewer families, per capita.

Sturrock: There are fewer families. Good point.

Jacobsen: There are more net families, but fewer families because of later family formation, later marriage, fewer people getting married per capita, and more divorces, so more divorces reduces net marriages, later marriages delays that as well, and the reduction in family formation are three trends that are aligned.

Sturrock: Right.

Jacobsen: So, that could inform some of the phenomena happening here.

Sturrock: Yes, and there are people who want to have families, man and woman who want to have children, can’t afford it. So, a lot are delaying having a child. They want to have one, but they have to wait a while because they can’t afford to live where they are and having another mouth to feed.

Jacobsen: Some have forfeit three things: marriage, family, and house.

Sturrock: That’s true.

Jacobsen: Therefore, it doesn’t become part of their life plan. Not because they don’t want it, but because they are forced into that situation.

Sturrock: Yes, there is always a segment who pay that price. I’m going to take my break and have a coffee.

Jacobsen: I have to run off to do a writing sessions with a friend in the UK. Thank you for your time.